
Traveller-digest      Friday, October 22 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1245



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Another new 2D Graphic...
Official Request: Palm Traveller
Re: Fnord, et al....
Re: TML members as resources
Re: GURPS Task System Summary
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Re: Drive destruct sequencing
Re: Seven Samurai
Re: Army missions...
Re: Copyright Issues with SJG
Re: Cardboard Heroes
T2 Robot
RE: TML Members as Resources
Re: Giving Jesse credit
re: A few starships fot GT
Subject: Aging (was Re : cloning mammoths)
Re: Space Opera?
Freefall
Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:33:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Another new 2D Graphic...

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> 
>         Tres nice, Mark!
>         I'm just getting started with 3dMax...  Trying not to be a junkie...
> not succeding.  =)

Forget about it...it's a lot easier to Just Say Yes ;-P

(Bruce, who was late to work _again_ today from waking up at the crack
of dawn so he could play with his shiny new rendering software)

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:37:24 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Official Request: Palm Traveller

"Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com> types about Palm software for 
Traveller, and asks about interest.

Count me in.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:40:42 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Fnord, et al....

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > Matthew Bond wrote:
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
> > > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
> > > Date: 21 October 1999 07:42
> > > Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update
> > >
> > > >> > > "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn fnord."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Careful.  I just seen the fnord.
> > > >>
> > > >> Wait until you start pining for 'em.
> > > >
> > > >That's pining for the *fyord*, not pining for the fnord.
> > >
> > > Its "Fjord", fnord <g>
> >
> > Narf!  Zort!  Poit!  Troz!  (sorry, couldn't resist)
> 
> Pinkie, I think I am going to have to hurt you now...
> 
> (Anybody *else* miss that show??)
> 

Terribly! 

There is a show on the Cartoon Channel called 'Road Rovers'. The episode
on last Sunday featured the return of one of their long running
villains. 

In the end he was thrown in the loony bin, next to a cell containing an
earlier villain in the series. They fell to arguing "I'm going to rule
the world" "No I'M going to rule the world!"

At the very end, a familiar voice rings out from farther down the hall
"No, it is I, Brain, who will rule the world!"

The camera pans out and dang if the loony bin doesn't look just like the
back side of Acme Labs....<snif>


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:43:28 -0700
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: TML members as resources

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF1C71.E5073440
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Let me see:

Spent early years in a variety of activities including programming in =
early high-level languages (computer-1), target shooting (rifle-1, =
pistol-1), swimming (swimming-2) and martial arts (brawling-1). Studied =
computer science and mathematics in college (computer-2, mathematics-2) =
while learning the basics of fencing (foil-1, saber-2). Continued on to =
graduate school (mathematics-1, instruction-1) while competing in =
extreme endurance sports like triathlons and marathons (athletics-2). =
Performed token military service (Army, rank 2) (tactics-2, artillery-1, =
FO-1, leader-1, navigation-1, tracked vehicle-1). Joined unnamed =
government intelligence organization for about ten years (mathematics-1, =
computer-1, communications-2, admin-2, intrusion-3), earning another =
advanced degree along the way (electronics-3, physics-2), completing =
USMC Amphibious Warfare School (tactics-1) as well as master SCUBA diver =
certification (SCUBA-3). Moved to commercial sector to find a use for =
skills left unappreciated after the end of the Cold War. Currently has a =
wide range of varied skills and experiences (JOT-3) from life =
experience.=20

This gives:

A6BCDA, Computer-4, Electronics-3, Mathematics-4, Communications-2, =
Physics-2, Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Brawling-1, Foil-1, Saber-2, Athletics-2, =
Swimming-2, SCUBA-3, Tactics-3, Artillery-1, FO-1, Leader-1, =
Navigation-1, Admin-2, Intrusion-3, JOT-3, Ground car-1, Tracked =
vehicle-1, Instruction-1


- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF1C71.E5073440
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial>Let me see:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial>Spent early years in a variety of activities =
including=20
programming in early high-level languages (computer-1), target shooting=20
(rifle-1, pistol-1), swimming (swimming-2) and martial arts =
(brawling-1).=20
Studied computer science and mathematics in college (computer-2, =
mathematics-2)=20
while learning the basics of fencing (foil-1, saber-2). Continued on to =
graduate=20
school (mathematics-1, instruction-1) while competing in extreme =
endurance=20
sports like triathlons and marathons (athletics-2). Performed token =
military=20
service (Army, rank 2) (tactics-2, artillery-1, FO-1, leader-1, =
navigation-1,=20
tracked vehicle-1). Joined unnamed government intelligence organization =
for=20
about ten years (mathematics-1, computer-1, communications-2, admin-2,=20
intrusion-3), earning another advanced degree along the way =
(electronics-3,=20
physics-2), completing USMC Amphibious Warfare School (tactics-1) as =
well as=20
master SCUBA diver certification (SCUBA-3). Moved to commercial sector =
to find a=20
use for skills left unappreciated after the end of the Cold War. =
Currently has a=20
wide range of varied skills and experiences (JOT-3) from life =
experience.=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial>This gives:</FONT></P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>A6BCDA, Computer-4, Electronics-3, Mathematics-4, Communications-2,=20
Physics-2, Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Brawling-1, Foil-1, Saber-2, Athletics-2,=20
Swimming-2, SCUBA-3, Tactics-3, Artillery-1, FO-1, Leader-1, =
Navigation-1,=20
Admin-2, Intrusion-3, JOT-3, Ground car-1, Tracked vehicle-1,=20
Instruction-1</P></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF1C71.E5073440--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:35:35 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Task System Summary

"Paul Campbell" <kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
>Thanks Eris,  someone had actually replied to me in a private email.  They
>actually sent me your post on the matter.  Thanks for looking out for me
>though buddy.

The complete BITS task system is now up on the BITS website, along with a
selection of other goodies...

http://www.bits.org.uk/ on the archive page.

Cheers,

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:40:06 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

"Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net> writes:

>I have reading the posts on this question and it seems to me that the answer
>is moot regarding drive explosions if a different question is asked.   Why
>not rig up a deliberately fatal misjump as a fail safe scuttle.   Same time
>sequences can be used as in the first question and a body of canon already
>exists regarding misjumps.  The GM also has the option of making, under
>certain situations, the misjump less than fatal if he/she is feeling
>generous.

Having just completed some process plant trials in which the commissionong
team didn't check everything....

Traveller ships tend to use the computers (pre-TNE) for everything. Say
that the destruct sequence is coded in the computer (either local or main).
It's one of the few things that the people commissioning the ship won't
test fully <grin>.

So the players start the sequence and the ship doesn't detonate. The code
is wrong, or there is a glitch.. Do they go back on board? What if they
need a ship and they were destroying it for a different reason. And if they
reboard it, will it suddenly go 'boom'? Or, why did they get that salvaged
ship so cheaply...

I feel evil :-)

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:42:35 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

"Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net> writes:
>Left to right:  My friend and ex co-worker at my real job Evans Pang, long
>time friend Pete Gotcher, Andy's wife (name escapes) and Andy from BITS, old

Sarah Lilly.

>friend Tim Dougherty (writer on my VFG site), me, and another shot of Pete
>(figured no-one could tell it's the same person unless you know ;)  The man
>& woman behind the glass in the terminal area (just above & left of the
>cargo bot's head) are Poser4 figures.

Looks cool.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:49:32 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> writes:
>>SPLURK?!? Please tell me where I can buy this book!
>	I bought my copy directly from Microcosm, in person, before they had
>finished unpacking all the boxes. Their bookstore is about the size
>of my bedroom, and they probably don't have more than 30 or 40
>different titles, but every single one is pure rocket juice.

Dave,

Please can you post a review if you have a minute? Basically, I'm
interested in how 'heavy' the book gets. Is it an overview or are we
talking of pages of equations? I'm an engineer, but I don't tend to go as
gear headed in game as real life. I'm wondering how much use it would be to
a non-/mildly gearheaded GM.

Cheers,

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Drive destruct sequencing

Craig Berry writes:
> The question to ask is:  What does it mean to 'destroy' a ship?  Is it
> necessary to reduce it to plasma?  My guess is that it is not.  Rather,
> the goal is to render it valueless to the enemy if captured, except
> perhaps as scrap metal.  There are two facets to this:
Well, part of the question initially was 'safe distance', which implies a blast sufficient to reduce the ship to shrapnel.
> 
> 1) Destruction of intelligence value
> 2) Destruction of material value

There's two levels of (2) also.  You can make it short-term valueless (i.e. you can't use it, but a couple months in a shipyard and it can be salvaged) or completely valueless (in which case it's a hunk of metal floating in space).
> 
> The first is easier.  It requires that the most useful intelligence data
> aboard ship be kept in a few well-known locations -- specific safes and/or
> memory stores -- and that these be rigged with individual explosive or
> otherwise destructive charges sufficient to effectively vaporize them on
> command.  A few kg of HE with the right design should suffice for this
> purpose.

I think thermite is favored here.  HE is more likely to scatter and shatter material than to vaporize it.  Within a traveller setting, a tiny plasma charge will do the job nicely.
> 
> The second is obviously harder, but it can be done.  Make it possible to
> deactivate all breaker boxes and the like, and send a few hairy spikes
> through the electrical system; you'll burn out half the electronics and
> set a few fires.
Note that this is sufficient for the first type of destruction of material value noted above.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:50:13 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Seven Samurai

Daniel Phelps wrote:
> 
> Was written:
> 
> There was
> >> one with George Peppard, and the guy who played the Man from Uncle and
> the
> >> actor who played John Boy from the Waltons loosely based on the Seven
> >> Samurai, I can't remember the name.
> >
> >"Battle Beyond the Stars". It's a classic. Bad, but fun.
> 
> The sequence was:
> 
> 1. The Seven Samurai (Samurai classic)
> 2. The Magnificent Seven (Western classic)
> 3. Battle Beyond the Stars (so so Sci/Fi John boy in space)

Plus there was some futuristic 'Magnificent Seven meets Road Warrior'
flick, called "World Gone Wild" with Bruce Dern in a starring role.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:58:16 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Army missions...

"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> writes:

>OBTRAV:  The Ine Givar have been supporting a revolt for years.  For
>various reasons, the Imperial government has changed from backing the
>oppressive government, to supporting the rebels, and are preparing to send
>in the troops.  The IG is split between factions that are prepared to
>accept the intervention, and those preparing to change sides and support
>their former enemies against their former allies.

Hmm.

Ine Givar = IG = terrorist organisation against the Third Imperium
Imperium Games = IG = terrorist organisation against the works that
describe the Third Imperium.

Hmm.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:35:27 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Copyright Issues with SJG

At 09:12 PM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>That is great that IG felt that way, however considering various legal
>>issues that have cropped up involving SJ Games and also the entire
>>publishing industry in relation to the Internet, it isn't as cut and dried
>>as that.
>
>It _was_ also a few years ago, I guess... and they were not around long
>enough to hit any such problems?

I would imagine that it is probably a factor that when your company is
raided by the Secret Service, you tend to be a bit more on the ball when it
comes to legal issues.


>Thanks for your excellent response! (BTW, can I publish this on my website
>as "SJG's Official Position" - now that it's in the public domain, of
>course!!! ;-) yes, that's only a slight dig! ;-) ;-)

Sure.  As long as you keep in mind that this is subject to change.  On the
whole, I think SJ Games is not going to be very tyrannical about
pre-submission posts online, but if my Secret Masters ever notice these
sorts of problems cropping up more frequently, expect the policy or SJ
Games attitude towards online material to change. :(


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:55:47 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes

At 01:33 AM 10/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>[2] There is a site out there (can't remember whose) that has one set of
>military figures on it as a picture file, set up in the same format as the
>"Cardboard Heroes". The idea is to print them onto cardboard. If no-one
>else can remember where these are, I'll try to locate them over the
>weekend.

Another place to check out is Microtactix and their cardstock buildings.
They have been putting out fantasy buildings (Vyllage-on-the-Cheep), but
have recently released Starbase Omega 3, a sci-fi set.  They are in 25mm
scale, and have some figures exactly in the same format as 
Cardboard Heroes.  Here is the URL for the sci-fi set:
http://Microtactix.com/sbo3.htm


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:05:20 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: T2 Robot

Erwin Fritz writes:
>david.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>> Peez said:
>>>I designed a Traveller
>>>T2-like robot, made up of subunits ranging in size from
>>>(relatively) simple nanites up to energy cell units
>>>5 cm across.
>>OK, when can we see it?!!
>Actually, I did a similar thing, more as a way to scare the
>bejeesus out of my players when they figured out what it was.
>The nanites were the size of a grain of sand, all identical.
>
>I didn't have any game rules for designing the thing, so I
>just winged it. If anyone wants my "specs" I'd be happy to
>share 'em.
<snipped>

	I also just conjured from my own imagination.  Last night
	I was unable to find my notes, but I remember it being
	composed of about 90% 0.1 mm units, 9% 1 mm units, and
	1% 10 mm units.  These could, of course, be combined into
	larger, more complex units within the robot.  I had it
	able to mimic forms that it knew, including bones, muscles,
	etc., but colour and texture were imperfect: touching or
	even seeing the robot from up close would give it away.
	It was less strong than an equivelent mechanical robot
	(something like Str 20-25), and unarmoured.  Slugs and
	explosives did no appreciable damage, but damage over 10
	slowed it, and damage over 20 stunned it.  Hand-to-hand or
	bow damage over 20 would also slow it.  Lasers and high
	energy weapons did one point per die, but it could turn
	reflective for protection similar to ablat armour.  All 
	damage came off Str, and reflected lost usable mass as 
	well.  On the subject of mass, it could incorporate items
	into itself, such as amputated fingers (for a fingerprint,
	until it started to rot), an autopistol (for a surprise),
	or even an air space to increase volume.  Not as nasty as
	the one from T2, but still a handful for your average PCs.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:22:49 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: TML Members as Resources

Well, since I started this...

Ian Ferguson
41 yrs old (almost 6 terms of something)

Biology 4, Computer 0, Wheeled Vehicle 1, Wilderness Survival 2,
Instruction 2, Medic 1

:)
Peez

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:29:00 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Giving Jesse credit

At 01:33 AM 10/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>BTW:  Remember when I posted that I had a chance to look at the G:T 2d
>edition photocopy draft at CrescentCityCon in August of this year?  They
>had made the same mistake.  When I pointed it out to Evil Stevie, he
>asked me to watch the SJG booth for a few minutes, went directly to a
>phone, and called the office to make sure that the book didn't go to
>press that way.  I haven't seen G:T 2d edition in the store yet, so I
>don't know whether this error was, in fact, caught in time.  Still, that
>was definitely a tres cool thing for Steve Jackson to do, IMHO.


I just checked my copy of G:T2ed, and Jesse's last name is spelled
correctly.  

Now the web page on the other hand. . . ;)


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:57:45 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: A few starships fot GT

>From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
>
>I got:
>Emass 978.3 (858 no fuel), LMass 1236.6, Cost MCr 117.412
>Accel 4.04 Gs (5.11 Gs empty, 5.83 Gs No J fuel), Jump 3, Air Speed 3647 
>mph
>
>Pretty similar except for cost.

In GT 2/e, the cost of manuever modules has more than doubled at TL12
(MCr 0.65/module, I think). I'll check on the rest of the stuff tonight (I 
did the design by hand, then on a spreadsheet). I may have just forgot to 
include a module or two in the description.

>
>Should it have fuel for a spare emergency jump 1?
>

>Should it have more armour? It needs a DR of at least 1750 if it is to 
>withstand
>an average long range hit from its own main weapon. This should be doable 
>in the
>space available.

Not really; the patrol cruiser is more for police than military duty. Note 
that the SDB can't take a hit from its weaponry, either.

> >Low Berth Liner
> >56 low berth (224 low passengers) <snip> 4.5 cargo (+3 turret)
>
>Low passengers in GT are entitled to one eighth of a DT baggage allowance.
>So you need to allow cargo space for this.

Forgot about that ;) Not really a problem for military use, since another 
ship would be required to carry the unit's equipment.

A generous and sadistic GM,

Brandon Cope

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:07:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Subject: Aging (was Re : cloning mammoths)

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>In mail you write:

>> The telomere theory of aging has been largely discredited - it was the
>> 'magic bullet of aging' for the 1990's. Other factors are at play.

>I'd heard just the opposite. With the clincher being Dolly the sheep
>and her fellow clones all showing advanced aging shortly after
>maturity.

Actually, I've heard that while Dolly has shorter telomere molecules, but
that there has so far been no evidence that she or any other clones are
aging more rapidly.  Not knowing much about sheep, I've no idea when such
proof would likely show up.  I'd imagine we'd know in 5 years or so.  So,
can anyone confirm of deny the veracity of what I've heard? 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:16:13 -0400
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

At 10:50 PM 10/21/99 -0800, you wrote:
> >>>> Star Wars is the only *modern* Space Opera I can think of.
> >>>
> >>> Star Trek DS9?
> >>>   Grand Sweep - Check
> >>>   Larger than life Characters - Check
> >>>   Escalating superweapon duels - Check
> >>> (actual, I'd call it Space Soap Opera, but thats just me)
> >>
> >>Sorry, but the characters *aren't* sufficiently larger than life. And
> >>there's nothing even *close* to a "real" superweapon.
> >
> > So Leonard, an Avatar (Emissary to the Prophets), the disgraced warrior who
> > becomes a hero among the enemies of his people, only to be adopted by the
> > family of a legendary general and then kills the despotic leader of the
> > Empire who is the enemy of his family and so changes history, and the 
> one of
> > a kind shapeshifting alien who turns out the be the key to defeating the
> > ravaging , unbeatable enemy empire aren't characters that are larger than
> > life? Gee you must know some interesting people.
>
>Please note. I didn't say that they weren't larger than life. I said
>they weren't *sufficiently* larger than life to be Space Opera.

Personally, my definition of Space Opera has always been the need for 
fighters to bank in space :)  Thus, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica are 
space opera.  Star Trek, in all it's incarnations, doesn't have fighters, 
hence it's not space opera.  B5's fighters don't bank in space, so it's not 
sepace opera either.

:)



           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)
	     Gearhead-in-Training

- --
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                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
                          			     -- Albert Einstein
for PGP public-key and
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Traveller WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/Traveller/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:30:34 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: Freefall

I don't remember who got me started on Freefall, but this one 
struck me as being a lot like some of my Traveller games

http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ff300/fv00244.htm

:)
Peez

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era

The heart of Vinge's point is not just that our rate of technological
advanncement is continuing to increase (a fact which may slow down and so
avoid any type of singularity) but that the current explosion in biotech
and electronics may result in the creation of beings that are
substantially more intelligent than humans.  We might have genetically
engineers supergeniuses, humans with massive mental cyberware, or 
hyperintelligent AI computers. 

If any such beings end up existing then suddenly the future becomes
completely unpredicatable, since such individuals will understand the
world in a fashion which we cannot grasp.  What would a being that was
more intelligent than the smartest human and capable of thinking 100 times
as fast be able to do?  What would a society run be such beings or perhaps
composes of such beings be like?  We have no clue...  That's what the
singularity is about.  Vinge has an excellent essay about this on the web. 

So long as merely human intellects are involved, tech may change rapidly,
but will never go completely off the scale, since humans can (to some
degree) understand and deal with anything humans can create.  If we
suddenly have superintelligent beings than all bets are off. 

Given that in the last few years geneticists have identified a gene
sequence for memory that can be used to allow mice to learn faster, and
medical electronics folks have made a (*really* primitive*) direct neural
interface (move a cursor by thought) I'm betting on intelligence enhanced
humans within the next 40 or 50 years.  I hope the process can be
retrofitted, since I'd sure like to become such a being. 

Actual non-biological AI seems more difficult, but I'm not willing to be
what computers will be like in 50 years, given that there were no
computers 50 years ago. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1245
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